Note from Stephen Cook: In March of 2004, before Barack Obama became known to the world, Cathleen Falsani, the then-religion reporter for the respected Chicago Sun-Times newspaper, interviewed Obama about his religious beliefs and views.

The interview presents an uncensored revealing of personal religious beliefs that few politicians have the courage to share. The interview transcript was edited for brevity and clarity. For an engaging article based on this interview published in the Sun-Times in 2004, click here. Thanks to Sitara and Al.

By Cathleem Falsani, Chicago-Sun March 27, 2004 – http://tinyurl.com/oz23af2 | Thanks to Golden Age of Gaia.

On Saturday, March 27, 2004, when I was the religion reporter at the Chicago Sun-Times, I met State Sen. Barack Obama at Café Baci, a small coffee joint in Chicago, to interview him exclusively about his spirituality. Our conversation took place a few days after he’d clinched the Democratic nomination for the U.S. Senate seat that he eventually won.

We spoke for more than an hour. He came alone. He answered everything I asked without notes or hesitation. The profile of Obama that grew from that interview became the first in a series in the Sun-Times called “The God Factor,” that eventually became my first book, . Because of the staggering interest in Obama’s faith and spiritual predilections, I thought it might be helpful to share that interview here.

Interview with State Sen. Barack Obama
Saturday March 27, 3:30 p.m.
Café Baci, 330 S. Michigan Avenue
Me: decaf
He: alone, on time, grabs a Naked juice protein shake

GG:
What do you believe?

OBAMA:
I am a Christian. So, I have a deep faith. I draw from the Christian faith. On the other hand, I was born in Hawaii where obviously there are a lot of Eastern influences. I lived in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, between the ages of six and 10. My father was from Kenya, and although he was probably most accurately labeled an agnostic, his father was Muslim. And I’d say, probably, intellectually I’ve drawn as much from Judaism as any other faith.

(A patron stops and says, “Congratulations,” shakes his hand. “Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thank you.”)

So, I’m rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that there is a higher power, that we are connected as a people. There are values that transcend race or culture that move us forward, and there’s an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived.

And so, part of my project in life was to spend the first 40 years of my life figuring out what I did believe – I’m 42 now. And it’s not that I had it all completely worked out, but I’m spending a lot of time now trying to apply what I believe and trying to live up to those values.

GG:
Have you always been a Christian?

OBAMA:
I was raised more by my mother, and my mother was Christian.

GG:
Any particular flavor?

OBAMA:
No. My grandparents were from small towns in Kansas. My grandmother was Methodist. My grandfather was Baptist. And by the time I was born, I think, my grandparents had joined a Universalist church. My mother, who I think had as much influence on my values as anybody, was not someone who wore her religion on her sleeve. We’d go to church for Easter. She wasn’t a church lady.

As I said, we moved to Indonesia. She remarried an Indonesian who wasn’t a practicing Muslim. I went to a Catholic school in a Muslim country. So I was studying the Bible and catechisms by day, and at night you’d hear the prayer call.

I don’t think as a child I had a structured religious education. But my mother was a deeply spiritual person. She would spend a lot of time talking about values and give me books about the world’s religions, and talk to me about them. And I think always, her view was that underlying these religions were a common set of beliefs about how you treat other people and how you aspire to act not just for yourself, but also for the greater good. And, so that, I think, was what I carried with me through college.

I didn’t start getting active in church activities until I moved to Chicago. The way I came to Chicago in 1985 was that I was interested in community organizing. I was inspired by the Civil Rights movement and the idea that ordinary people could do extraordinary things. And there was a group of churches out on the South Side of Chicago that had come together to form an organization to try to deal with the devastation of steel plants that had closed. They didn’t have much money, but felt that if they formed an organization and hired somebody to organize them to work on issues that affected their community, that would strengthen the church and also strengthen the community.

So they hired me, for $13,000 a year. A princely sum. And I drove out here and I didn’t know anybody and started working with both the ministers and the lay people in these churches on issues like creating job training programs, or afterschool programs for youth, or making sure that city services were fairly allocated to underserved communities.

And it was in those places where I think what had been more of an intellectual view of religion deepened, because I’d be spending an enormous amount of time with church ladies, sort of surrogate mothers and fathers. Everybody I was working with was 50 or 55 or 60, and here I was a 23-year-old kid running around.

I became much more familiar with the ongoing tradition of the historic black church and it’s importance in the community, and the power of that culture to give people strength in very difficult circumstances, and the power of that church to give people courage against great odds. And it moved me deeply.

One of the churches that I became involved in was Trinity United Church of Christ. And the pastor there, Jeremiah Wright, became a good friend. So I joined that church and committed myself to Christ in that church.

GG:
Did you actually go up for an altar call?

OBAMA:
Yes. Absolutely. It was during a daytime service. And it was a powerful moment. It was powerful for me because it not only confirmed my faith, it not only gave shape to my faith, but I think, also, allowed me to connect the work I had been pursuing with my faith.

GG:
How long ago?

OBAMA:
16, 17 years ago. 1987 or 88

GG:
So you got yourself born again?

OBAMA:
Yeah, although I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.

I’m a big believer in tolerance. I think that religion at it’s best comes with a big dose of doubt. I’m suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.

I think that – particularly as somebody who’s now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart – there’s an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty.

GG:
Do you pray often?

OBAMA:
Uh, yeah, I guess I do. Its’ not formal, me getting on my knees. I have an ongoing conversation with God. Throughout the day I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.

One of the interesting things about being in public life is there are constantly these pressures being placed on you from different sides. To be effective, you have to be able to listen to a variety of points of view. You also have to know when to be just a strong advocate, and when to push back against certain people or views that you think aren’t right or don’t serve your constituents.

The biggest challenge, I think, is always maintaining your moral compass. Those are the conversations I’m having internally. I’m measuring my actions against that inner voice that for me is audible, is active. It tells me where I think I’m on track and where I’m off track.

I always think of politics as having two sides. There’s a vanity aspect to politics, and then there’s a substantive part of politics. Now you need some sizzle with the steak to be effective, but I think it’s easy to get swept up in the vanity side of it, the desire to be liked and recognized and important. It’s important for me throughout the day to measure and to take stock and to say, “Now am I doing this because I think it’s advantageous to me politically, or because I think it’s the right thing to do? Am I doing this to get my name in the papers or am I doing this because it’s necessary to accomplish my motives?”

GG:
Checking for altruism?

OBAMA:
Yeah. I mean, something like it. It’s interesting, the most powerful political moments for me come when I feel like my actions are aligned with a certain truth. I can feel it. When I’m talking to a group and I’m saying something truthful, I can feel a power that comes out of those statements that is different than when I’m just being glib or clever.

GG:
What’s that power? Is it the holy spirit? God?

OBAMA:
Well, I think it’s the power of the recognition of God, or the recognition of a larger truth that is being shared between me and an audience.

That’s something you learn watching ministers. What they call the Holy Spirit. They want the Holy Spirit to come down before they’re preaching, right? Not to try to intellectualize it, but what I see is there are moments that happen within a sermon where the minister gets out of his ego and is speaking from a deeper source. And it’s powerful.

There are also times when you can see the ego getting in the way, where the minister is performing and clearly straining for applause or an Amen. And those are distinct moments. I think those former moments are sacred.

Continued in Part 2 tomorrow